Somehow, the OP's actual question about pivoted tonearms with straight vs curved arm tubes (or "wands") got completely lost as the discussion turned to turntable and speaker mass. Related question: Has there ever been a curved or "s" shaped unipivot arm? I own an SL1200GAE and have done so for about a year now. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > I want to update everyone on David's journey. In short, these are two superb turntables and both sound terrific. Then I would put the patio block down on top of the vapor barrier and do your supports as you see fit. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. Ideally one continuous length from cartridge pins to RCA plugs. The only straight tonearms are linear tracking tonearms, the rest of the tonearm with straight armtube have an offset angle of the headshell, so they are not actually straight, except for the very short ones like the ViV Lab for example. SME, whose arms in the 1960's and 70's (Series 2 and 3) wereS-shaped, does the same. The weather has been good right now, but it still seems like a spring project to me. I would not say that straight or S shape is per se the determining factor regarding sound quality. First, I have a VPI record-washer, their cheapest model (about $450-$500), which has been superb. Anyway, if anyone is interested I will try and offer some additional perspective on the matters under discussion to the already excellent points made. Once, I figured maybe putting that curve in an arm would add off axis mass and help with anti-skating forces by adding mass to the side of the needle that was on the part of the groove facing inward? The two bends add rigidity to vibration compared to a straight tube and flexural waves will be attenuated. Although, I have heat shrinked and used interior dampening on light weight straight arms, also with good results. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. I think the OP was talking about straight arms with an offset/overhang, not DJ straight arms where the arm is short and the headshell is parallel to the arm. I experienced quite a lot of hum even before the wire harness got damaged. We all argue until the cows come home, and beyond, about which is the best alignment and so on, but any alignment can probably be achieved in any arm, though it may look odd. There's no real advantage to curved arms. 3. Vinyl Record Cleaning Arm - Anti Static Brush for Vinyl Records - Adjustable Record Player Cleaner Arm For Turntables - Anti Static Vinyl Brush w/ Carbon Fiber Center Bristles - LP Record Accessories. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office Our publication is supported by its audience. I have a Sota Sapphire TT with a Syrinx PU3 tonearm. Let me see if I can make a cave man drawing to show you. Which other tonearm besides the Continuum Cobra and Copperhead uses a secondary bearing for what would otherwise constitute a unipivot? It's the angle of the cartridge and the pivot point of the arm that count. It would have been easier to have the collet type of connection in straight alignment with the armtube and achieve the required offset angle by bending the tube. And that's the reason "DJ" applications use a straight tone arm. An overhung straight tonearm on a DJ turntable has a tracking error of between -6 and +17 degrees depending on how far through the record you are, which, compared to other tonearm Just bring the arm over to the spindle. He is up and about and functioning similar to his old self. I have not found a good substitute for great bearings and a massive platter. For shielding? I found a homeless man living under a single-woman's house onceno kidding. In a high fidelity arm, the needle will "overhang" the spindle by 1/2" or so. The table was always jumpy, I know because I used it in college and always had the best luck when it was mounted on a shelf. Is there a trick to it? With those, one gives up correct tracing geometry to get more reliable scratching without the arm skipping. Thanks. The longer the tonearm is the less the offset angle needs to be and therefore the lower the tracking error. The shape of the tonearm is important in so far as it affects the torsional rigidity of the tonearm. My order of importance is:1.) I like Rega products, but I want to be able to use different cartridges and adjust VTA without using shims. I guess I could compare my straight fixed headshell & my curved removable headshell arm wands on my EA-10 tonearm and see if there is much difference in sound. Once you have a cartridge mounted, you have established a fixed relationship between the arm/needle and the platter/LP. As does the Basis Vector. On an axe head, the poll is there specifically to act as a counter balance to the bit. Many trials and tests later, Im finally happy to introduce The DHC STR8 ARM for Technic 1200s series. You can tell the two different straight arm types apart very easily by seeing where the stylus lands relative to the spindle. The pivot will change. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? Should we watch this space??? Cheers wolster In those arms, the geometry work out to the same thing although they get there differently. Perhaps would work for me as well? www.musicdirect.com has many isolation platforms, but the heavy foot-falls will require more than that. I have also had in my home Music Hall, 5,7, and 9's which are also excellent performers at there respective price points. Keith_W, This tone arm is a big improvement in tracking and anti skating. by Abandonflip 10 Feb 2008 19:07, Post Now all I need is to get the boommobiles to go away. The advantage is the ability to place the cartridge square in the headshell and achieve offset angle. But that should be easy to decide with either arm anyway. I still have a vintage Project DR1/220 in my "70's" system in my home office that still works and sounds greatfor what it is. Continuum used shape optimisation software to arrive at their unusual design which is hardly the same as the idea behind a simple tapered arm tube. Yes, I am interested in your thoughts. by JaS 10 Feb 2008 10:18, Post To save space. I'll be interested in seeing the arm shape explanations that come in here! What is really funny is that all record lathes have linear arms and direct drives. by nubie1 10 Feb 2008 05:26, Post It is the quality of workmanship, bearing and materials that make the difference. Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PBo, Aug 6, 2010. If the azimuth cannot be fixed by the limited headshell adjustment, you really need to return the cart you bought, you have a cartridge problem not a tonearm problem. Post With a curved arm youbhave to rotate it. HERE. Its OK Keith. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Raul, based on what I have learned over the last few years, I would also prefer a fixed pivot. Lets address the floor issue first. The shape of the armwand is but one important variable in tonearm design. The OP was talking about the difference between s-shaped and straight arms, both with a bent (offset) headshell. The GAE has a double gimball bearing arrangement. However, it does mean that the "pull" of the stylus in the groove is now being applied at an angle to the pivot point, instead of directly. Thanks for any input. Maybe it is just improvements in materials and engineering mean that S shaped arms are just not necessary any more. by BLUEPEARLAUDIO 10 Feb 2008 19:16, Post Maybe the wise old hands can give me some advice. Like many trends in turntable design, the bends give no appreciable advantage in resonance control. I have had both, shoot, I have both now. You could also consider doing the same thing with a mid-priced Rega or other non-suspended table. What turntable are you going to get Keith? Long arms are a better design as the arc the arm moves across is larger and linear tracking would be the best if the world was prefect. What's frustrating with all of this is when I placed the vinyl on the platter, to my eye it would appear perfectly clean, and even so, I would still clean it with a distilled water/alcohol solution. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. But in general S and J shaped arms tend to be heavy and straight ones light. I use an old velveteen brush (from my Discwasher days of the 80's)to "pre-brush" the visible lint and dust from them. November 11, 2009 in Vinyl and Turntables. Straight gives you better tracking (needle stays in groove) at the expense of worse record wear. A Rega P5maybe! No worries.we understand. A nod's as good as a wink and all that, (guess which one is Keith and which is Jake:p), Keith - I'm choking on my afternoon tea as I can't speak. Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. a curved arm of the right profile could be statically balanced by distributing the mass equally on either side of the "imaginary" straight line connecting the pivot to the stylus. This is why manufacturers like SME and Kuzma use tapered arm wands and Continuum uses the cigar shape. I read Robert Greene's review of the SL1200G in TAS last night. LOL. I did not know that the Continuum has a secondary bearing, I thought it was a unipivot. It is necessary for the tonearm to have as little flex as possible. My question: What are the advantages/disadvantages of each, sonic or otherwise? One or two supports may be enough the solidify the foot-fall vibrations as you walk. I even went out and purchased a new cartridge and needle and still happened. You can have S, J, straight, flat floppy NAD, or what ever arm shape, but the stylus is at a point and angled in a specific direction, and that what matters. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 18:31, Post There is no doubt that tonearm geometry is critical when you get to analyzing minute resolving powers of the best, but your drive system is the heart-beat of vinyl. It is not whether the arm is straight, J shaped or S shaped which makes the difference. Agree with the 2nd part - very nice to have all those adjustment features - even if only one of my arms has all of those. there are perfectly straight arms, but they're mostly used for DJ scratching. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tracking error. I had never imagined such a thing until I tore the bathroom apart for a major remodel. By clicking links on our site, we may earn affiliate commission, but our editorial remains entirely independent and unbiased. This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. Not much really if you're DJing. Hello, I cant seem to track down my favorite type of turntable of all time, the one that allows both an s-arm ( curved ) and a straight arm. by analogous 10 Feb 2008 16:27, Post I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. The tone arm angle is called offset angle I am well aware of my crawl space. As you guys said. Either can sound very good if matched to the rest and set up properly I believe but personally Ive always had better luck with straight tonearms. Longer arms more closely approximate a tangent but their higher moving mass involves other compromises such as reduced rigidity. ", S arms are usually higher mass, often used with MC cartridges. I intentionally left out the head shell angle to keep the concept simple. Straight configurations can be reconfigurable into various sets. The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. They are different ergonomically, with the GAE easier to setup and to use perhaps appealing to the record collector, the Prime perhaps appealing more to the true audiophile. Tracking was not nearly as reliable with massive S arm tables and carts. Thread starter DJ Insyder; Start date Apr 15, 2001; D. DJ Insyder New member. I don't know about the whys either. And the electronics sit against a load bearing wall, so finding good support isn't a problem. I'm no mathmetician or tonearm designer, but that has to be total nonsense. The turntable issue is more one of should you upgrade your phono stage first. BradOlson, Jan 8, 2003 #2. It is about maximizing stiffness with low mass and low resonance. Straight is generally more used But my Prime, with it's heavy platter, excellent bearing and tripple belts, and aided by Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner Tachometer and Eagle PSU, is it's equal both measurably and sonically. I doubt he is looking at a vintage separate arm! But in practice fact of the matter is Ive never had results with S arms like with straight and most quality tables these days use straight probably for good reason. When your are down there you might also want to do a couple of things: Clean out all wood debris that you can; put down a poly vapor barrier under the entire crawl space that you can reach and leave about a 1-2 foot rim of exposed dirt at the outer inside-edge by the cement block foundation; check your cross vents and make sure they have good screen and wire mesh on them to keep rodents out!!!. i love the look of straight arms. I replaced 100% of the house wring a few years ago, and had to do considerable structural work on this house. Discussion in 'Turntables' started by It will depend on the material used for the wand itself and the amount and type of damping material used inside to prevent ringing. With a friend it should not take you very much time. Platter/bearing system3.) You may have to register before The wall mounted shelf will help as well. The curved or "S" shaped arm always seemed like they did nothing except to add mass. Cleanliness is next to Godliness in trying to extract all the gooves have to offer. As some have already noted, s shaped arms tend be higher mass designs. From this it, follows (?) If it is a dirt crawl space you should put a 12" or 16" square cement patio block below it in the dirt. The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. So it isn't quite so stout as I'd like. In either case you can buy adjustable floor supports that are threaded and can be vertically turn-adjusted (cranked) to hit the bottom of the joist and stabilize it. (Note: there is no apparent damage/mildew on the LP jackets.) I'm only being curious!!! Ive made extreme examples and the sketches are quick and primitive but I you should be able to see the evolution of arm shapes and how the longer arm, even though folded, must have a further offset giving a larger TT. The reason you would choose to buy a turntable with a straight arm as opposed to a curved arm is for scratch control. A straight tone arm has a completely different position, angle and range of grip and is set-up so DJs can scratch with high precision without the worry of skipping records. (The solder connections at the bottom of the arm to the interlink to the phono stage came adrift). Then I realized I had it backwards, so maybe that extra mass on the outside caused some torque/rotation in the arm and "rotated" the needle in such a way that it was able to more forcefully push on the outer facing groove and resist the skating force of the inner facing groove. When I was younger one of the best TT packages I owned was a Technics SP10 direct drive with one of 2 "S" shaped SME arms. Great question, one I've never had an answer for. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. As far as my phono stage goes I don't think it's a problem. Tonearm, After 30+ years spinning vinyl I do believe MF is right about owning some type of record vacuum cleaning system. It really doesn't make a difference, but: for a given effective length Same reason I believe behind long tonearms and parallel tracking tonearms. It is also problematic to make bold statements about bearing configurations. What's the difference between a straight or S shaped tonearm? the rest of arms as pointed prior either curved or with s-shaped tube. Thanks. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Straight Arm Wear! At your price point, you can consider going a refurbished Sota and start looking for a good condition Graham 2.2 arm or similar. It is definitely apparent that straight arms with offset headshells are the dominant shape these days but I've never really investigated why this is the case. Curved vs. straight: 1. The angle of the head shell (although parallel to the cartridge in both S and straight arms) has no bearing. Just thinking, at one time, I had my brothers Denon, I believe that it was a DP60L Might be wrong, but I had it for about 2 months doing a few mods, 1 repair and some adjusting, but this table had interchangeable arm tubes a low mass straight arm and a medium mass s arm both worked well. naglfar, I dont think it makes any difference,its all about the design of the arm. here is some reading for you Keith regarding tracking errors. I have a Thorens TD 160 which has been my main turntable since 1976 with V15-Vmrx cartricge. So, who first promulgated that thought, Bertrand Russell or William Butler Yeats? As you no doubt know, the S-shape is just so the headshell, where the cartridge is parallel to the sides of the headshell, fits. The Vestax arm is short, thus has no overhang. If so, this just became a spring project. Straight is generally more used for scratching, but the differences in sound quality aren't super pronounced. But bent, the pivot can be nearer the platter. Since it has been a couple of months, I don't know if you have solved your dust bunny problem, but here's what I do to LP's that habitually offend. Linear tracking arms also have their own set of compromises and, if Continuum Audio Labs is any sort of yardstick, their "real world" performance can be matched or bettered by pivoted arms. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:09, Post Scratch DJs prefer a straight arm, possibly due to the physics of the vinyl moving back in the opposite direction, I never remember. The last time I looked,most high end tables come with a straight arm. I searched the forums and couldn't find anything regarding tracking and tone arm design. For LP's I have recently cleaned, I don't need to wet clean them again for awhileI just put 'em on the turntable and dry-brush them with the Hunt. I have over 2500 LP's, many of which are at least 20 years old. All the different shapes and designs of arms try to minimize tracking errors across the playing arc. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. The choice of arm (mass being a key issue) is generally dictated by cartridge matching (compliance), so you're usually nudged toward the curved camp or the straight camp by your cartridge. I don't think we will ever be able to measure/listen anyway as no one manufactures two models of the same tonearm with detachable and fixed headshells. I curremtly have a Rega P3 which I really enjoy for not only it's sonic qualities, but it's utter simplicity. But as you say, I should only have to do it once, and doing it will have benefits beyond the sonic variety. The real key to me of any TT system is the drive systemhow quiet and how isolated from air and earth-born vibrations is the platter/chassis? I have thought about going into the dirt crawl space and reinforcing the floor from below. What brf and Lewm said is correct and now add helomech. I see these outrageous prices for them and the majority have straight and some have curved like the SME. You have to adjust the angle of your needle to the center of the tone arm column. Using the same cartridge, the two TTs/arm combinations do sound somewhat different, but as to which is "better" or more "accurate" I cannot say. I'm looking for a table under $3500, not vintage. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? This design totally reduces the Try and relocate the wires if you can. In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actual shape of the arm wand. If you need new vents they are about $15 each at Home Depot, are a push-in fit the same size as a standard cement block, and have a bi-metallic thermostat that closes the louvers when it gets cold keeping your floor warmer in the winter and with the vapor barrier will keep the ground moisture from entering your sub-floor. It is science. Several type of arms here, straight, curved, S, J and others. I disassembled the arm and discovered that the yellow earth wire was not connected on the tonearm side and only to the eart stud on the turntable. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. I have used a couple of different fluids in it, but the Record Research Lab fluid (I order mine from Acoustic Sounds) works best. This leaves a bunch of crud on the brush, which I sweep off with a dry sponge. June 7, 2010 in General Hi-Fi Discussion. Having started my research, I have noticed that some well reviewed turntables have curved 'arms. Then they play fine, with no noise, no grunge. Some claim the straight arm wears out records more quickly, but is better for DJ scratching, as it holds a groove better. By contrast, some claim S-shaped arms are more prone to skipping but don't wear as hard on the vinyl and produce a cleaner sound. Regardless of whether you select a straight arm or curved arm, proper setup is key. Its more for at home HiFis. Rather it incorporates a similar interchangeable arm design to my Prime. 4.3 out of 5 stars 731. Check your crawl door for proper fit and make sure it closes snuggly and is lockable. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Comon' can somebody help before I spend too much for actually nothing. Interesting thoughts on the subject. Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf. As mentioned above, straight tonearms have the headshell offset, so its not realy straight. I dare say cost in manufacturing will also play a roll. Why is it that most of todays cost no object SOTA arms employ a straight arm tube. I also own a VPI Prime with straight tube arms (2) and have owned this TT for about 2 years. The blackness of the backgrounds was remarkable to me. Roy Gandy, designer and manufacturer of the game-changing Rega pickup arms,proselytizes that it is a straightwandwhich can be made stiffer than an S-shaped one. Lathes and turntables are two totally different beasts. Over lap the runs by about 3-4 inches. I regret ever selling them. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? As an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissionsfrom qualifying purchases from Amazon.com. http://store.acousticsounds.com/index.cfm?get=results&start=1%20&CategoryID=111, http://www.grahamaudio.co.uk/technology/cabinets/, https://www.stereophile.com/category/tonearm-reviews. I suppose I could run a few 2x6's across the floor joists, and then put heavy supports underneath first and see how it stabilizes things. Not sure who thought of it first (Conti or Spotheim) but that point is irrelevant to this discussion. by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 19:23, Design and Content Vinyl Engine 2002-2022, Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited, HiFi Engine | FAQ | Site Policy | Advertising | Cookie Options. Curved configurations in most cases cannot be reconfigured. In fact I've spent entirely too much time in there. Say an isolation platter?. Keep it locked. Aquateen, Jan 7, 2003 #1. Sckott Hand Tighten Only. If my fading memory still serves me well enough, my recollection is that the 'S' arm shape was aimed at modifying the resonant frequency of the arm - where the straight arm was favoured by those that felt that the lower mass was more important. Santa will bring me a record vacuum cleaning system this year or there is going to be trouble. The table you have is decent for sure. Price: $21,000. You'll just wish the previous owner had done it for you. I know the answer, there is an important reason! Hi, I am another newcomer to the forum. Our publication is supported by its audience. My question was prompted by the TAS review of the Technics SL-1200G in their current issue. I have a different question. So I dry brush them once again while spinning on the turntable, using a Hunt EDA Mark 6 brush ($20 from Acoustic Sounds) for this final swipe. He has made great progress in his recovery. TT manufacturers began making them because the convenience of removable headshells allow for quick cartridge swaps and easy setting of the offset angle. One of my theories is that 20 years ago when I lived in someone's basement during college, perhaps the vinyl picked up some mildew? As far as I know there isn't a great difference between a straight, S or J tonearm. Unless your system has great recolving power and you are using at least a $1K phono stage from Mr. Fremmer's recommendations, the "s" shape of tone arm may not be the biggest problem. Easier to make a straight tube design rigid (for a given mass). You, I believe, are talking about straight, non-offset arms used for scratching. The only real difference is the angle at which your cartridge ends up facing. by Guest 10 Feb 2008 18:53, Post A wall mounted shelf would help if you can find a load bearing wall that goes to a major support in the basement or the crawl space. I upgraded to a McIntosh 6500 integrated amp a couple years ago, but by then I was sick of the skips. I much prefer the nice curves of my tonearm to a stiff rod. I am sure the VPI and Regas in this price range are the same. Just discovered mono split mixing and its a game changer. Most DJ arms are "underhung" to aid in scratching, whereas straight tonearm with an offset headshell used for accurate audio replay are overhung. IF YOU JOINED ON JUNE 25TH TO JULY 18TH, GO. Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 Next > coppercitymt New Member. Unfortunately the wiring harness got damaged and I now have to replace it. Do you have any suggestions? In my experience other desirable features when considering a tonearm include: a single unbroken run of cable between cartridge pins and phono preamp input connectors; low friction bearings; proper damping; ability to adjust every parameter to optimise VTA, VTF, azimuth, anti-skate, overhang, alignment. Does anyone know of this type of This little project is not a bad as it sounds and you will only need to do it once. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. My small dilemma is that I want to get a turntable like a Denon or a Kenwood to match my system. Over lap the runs by My apologies. HERE, TO CHECK THE WINNERS LIST. Then I thought it was entirely based on having detachable headshells that a curved arm would allow to screw on "straight" onto the arm so the cartridge offset would be based on arm geometry while at the same time allowing headshell mounting to be "straight ahead.". I appreciate whatever advice you have to offer. What turntable are you going to get Keith? Of course, it has an "S" arm on it. I currently use an Exact 2 in my Rega. This should be fixable with a few things from Home Depot or Lowes. S-Curved tonearm. All original. Does that have some sort of foil wrapped around the cartridge wires? Hope someone really knows why they designed the "S" shaped tonearm. So, Warwick, are you saying that an S shaped arm would have more torsional rigidity but at the expense of more mass? I've never really been able to Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? Topic for today: Straight or curved tonearms on turntables? So do the worlds best turntables. Take a look at this! Then I wet-clean them with the VPI. Another marketing gimmick that doesn't produce any discernable difference under real playback conditions. I think you are confusing the issue. BradOlson Country/Christian Music Maven. Do you edit your mixes after youve finished? Discussion in 'Turntables' started by coppercitymt, Aug 28, 2012. I have considered upgrading for some time, which would be accompanied by my building a shelf for the table that is tied into the wall. You mentioned a record vacuum cleaning system. Arms are normally of three different types; straight (I-shaped), J, and S. The head shell is at an angle to the arm axis, the arm pivot. The arm could be any shape as long as it's stiff and balanced. Since the shortest, most efficient line from the bearing to the needle would be a straight line, I could only relate to straight arms. Straight Tone Arm Vs. Curved Tone Arm. The SpJ tonearm as used on the La Luce Centoventi turntable uses the secondary pivot to stabilize the arm. I think the best way is to try the Audio Craft AC3000MC / AC4000MC with multiply armtubes of the different shapes. Light weight straight tone arms have the increased risk of unwanted resonance due to standing resonance waves along the entire length. I am reminded of the wisdom of Bertrand Russell, "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.". by Paladin 10 Feb 2008 16:20, Post No one has gone wrong buying a Music Hall product. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. In my experience other desirable features when considering a tonearm include: a single unbroken run of cable between cartridge pins and phono preamp input connectors; low friction bearings; proper damping; ability to adjust every parameter to optimise VTA, VTF, azimuth, anti-skate, overhang, alignment. The Graham features VTA adjustment on-the-fly. $29.99 $ 29. Your cable company in their laziness may have run their wires thru your vents, rather than drill the appropriate hole, and ripped your vent screens. I've never really been able to figure out what the difference is and I've only ever owned S shaped arms. Once you've done a little "dirty work" under the house I think you will be in good shape. Hi, for those bros have played enough with turntables: is there significant difference between the straight arm design vs the curved arm (J-shape, like the SL1200) in terms of sound quality? Is one tone arm better than the other with tracking regarding a straight design versus a curved design? I don't think any of the above is of importance. My SL1200GAE does have very steady speed, is quiet and all that. Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Any shelf construction tips would be appreciated as I'm an electrician, not a carpenter. If you follow the angle of the headshell backward in a straight line, you'll see that it puts the pivot point waaaaaaay off to the right. Hi David This is just speculation on my part but I think that S shaped arms probably evolved when all headshells were of the removable variety. It Well what we usually refer to as "straight" arms are not actually straight, as the cartridge is offset. A real straight dj tonearm has horrible tra by JaS 10 Feb 2008 18:08, Post Jump to content Clifton. By I'm fairly new to the TT side of things so if anyone else xam correct me I'd appreciate it. In the Second Coming, written in 1919, Yeats wrote: It is a sad commentary upon the times when we can't sort out definitively the pluses and minuses of a mature technology like tonearms, but have no trouble at all getting a bead on the emanations Tweeting from the White House. Because no torque is being created, the record will be less prone to skipping. ", Sound Media Group Pty Ltd I know S shaped arms have more mass if all else is equal as the curve means the wand is longer (but not longer in terms of effective length). then you would love my double s grado signature tonearm. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296. The J and S shape tonearms (need to) use the so called ''lateral, balance'' weight in order to get equal pressure on both horizontal, bearings. It looks like the OP is looking for a table that comes with an arm included. "He'll never know! I have also had a newer Throens 850 which I think is tremendously quiet, very black backgrounds, in a simple, but well excecuted bearing, heavy platter, good motor with belt drive system. StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Other than less tracking error, any other pros or cons? What's the official name for those turntables with a curved arm? The vapor barrier plastic (6-8 mil) comes in rolls and once you position it you just start rolling and at the end turn around move over and roll your way back. 2. There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread. It's a functional and useful design. Case in point, the SME Series III is an "S" arm which does not have this feature. Sorry to disappoint you guys but properties like stiffness depend greatly on type of material, mechanical properties of the material, length to diameter ratio, you can't just say J shape better than straight pipe or vice versa. If you like the sound of it make sure you are buying 1 or 2 replacement stylii for it as they may become in short supply as Shure has stopped making the Type V MR. Let me know if you have other issues. Also the number of connections the phono cable has to pass through is important, the less the better. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. A linear tonearm has zero tracking error. So, why is it that the majority of modern tonearms are straight? I must have been blind or something! Hope this helps. Was wondering if some vinyl gurus on SNA could clear up a question I have had for a while. Powered by Invision Community. Dismiss Notice; S-shaped arm vs linear tracker vs straight arm? by kitemap 10 Feb 2008 10:01, Post Then I gave up thinking about it and stuck with straight arms. 130230-6882 Curved and Straight Tonearms Over the last 40 years I have owned 3 turntables. I am hoping you live in the southern U.S. and not tyrying to do this in Buffalo or Chicago right now. OK, here goes. Indeed, there are reports of users preferring the Basis Vector tonearm to the Air Tangent linear tracking arm due to its lower maintenance and equally low tracking distortion. The J kind is difficult to balance while the S can be, balanced by lifting up the front side of the TT and then moving the, later weight till the arm reach equilibrium postion. I plan to use the CARDAS tone arm wire as it is quite affordable. Hey Jim - I've got a question for you. At the time, I didn't compare, we exchanged them based on the cartridge. That is one of the biggest improvements in playback quality you can make. Jake and Wolster - can't a man ask a simple question without everyone speculating about his analog plans! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. After i do the bracing perhaps an isolation platter would do what is needed. For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not all are created equal in this regard. Either way, you have a lot of excellent choices to consider. I've got a couple hundred LP's sitting here that I "gave up on" ten years ago because everytime I went to play them, my phono needle either got clogged with lint/dust or some sort of grungy substance. Although it is correct to say that an "S" shaped tonearm often facilitates the incorporation of a removable head shell into the design, it is not axiomatic that this would be so. Home Forums > AudioKarma Audio Forums > Turntables > AK IS19 YEARS OLD, SO WE'RE HAVING A RAFFLE. Basic physics is at work here. Thanks a lot guys, I just googled a few different tonearms and only just noticed that in all of them, the headshell is offset. As you guys said. I There will be those that make decisive statements about the merits of direct drive vs. belt drive, complete with golden ear claims about tone/pitch perfection and such, most if not all of which have been debunked over the years in repeated double blind tests. Curved configuration will give you more elbow space to share with someone sitting next to you. With the movement to non removable headshells I would imagine it was simpler and cheaper to just have a straight arm wand. I hope I am not spoiling your day. Possibly just fashion I guess? I'm pretty sure they're used for radio but I want to know what the official name for one is. Because of the extra pivot offset, extra arm length, combined with the angled head shell and extra inertial weight, the angled arm benefits with much less groove angle distortion and, ultimately, smoother sounding music. http://www.djtutor.com/repairs http://www.djtutor.com/affairsGive your opinion please. Location: Bemidji, Minnesota, USA. I believe the single unbroken run of wire is great in theory, but popy**** in reality. Yes, I meant straight up to the headshell. Press J to jump to the feed. More specifically, physics and ultimately, how nice your music sounds. "In the golden age of vinyl back in the 70s selling at Tech Hifi, Lafayette and Radio Shack I always levitated to tables with straight arms. All of these turntables have had straight tonearms. Question, how much would i need to psend to make a real upgrade of my current setup, and/or is there another path I need to consider? With DVS, it doesn't really matter that much. But I hardly use it since my floor isn't sturdy enough and so walking is a very risky thing when a record is playing. Powered by Invision Community. I am planning on upgrading my Rega in the near future. CJO, I was just browsing through and came upon your post. Thanks for the helpful post, YS. This creates torque on the pivot, and that torque is the reason for anti-skate. curved sounds better on vinyl and produces less record wear. But then again you could fill a book with stuff I don't know. I am not sure which of these two TTs is the better of the two. Going from there to the turntable, they attract some dust from the air because of the static the VPI cleaning generates. It is a rather hard concept to figure out but once the concept sinks in, it is a magic key to explain why there are weird shaped arms that make smoother sounding music. Where are the super "S" arms? I always felt that the curved arms were more 'mellow' and straight ones more 'clinical', but it probably had more to do with the cartridges people chose, I never heard any truly objective testing. PLEASE RECHECK THE WINNERS LIST. I only have a very brief (3 page) manual for the arm and would appreciate any help in setting up the arm. But most of the main points were made. Also a larger tube is more rigid than a small tube even if they weigh the same (tubes have good rigidity for their mass compared to a solid rod). What "game" was changed by Rega pick-up arms? For a straight tonearm the accuracy of the headshell offset angle is very important for the lowest possible tracking error and unfortunately not al There are so many variables and connections in any one system ( let alone the variables in the LP's) that the I find no real difference between tonearms with fixed headshells or curved arms with detachable headshells , except for the the ultimate question - do you like the sound of the tonearm. For example, my Prime single pivot tonearm was recently modified and significantly improved sonically by the addition of a second pivot, developed by VPI. Also, if you are a mix DJ stuck with straight arms and you don't want to put undue wear on your vinyl you can just angle the carts in the headstock. Cartridge/Phono stage2.) J and Straight arms mostly use proprietary headshells, or non at Which is way off topic. I keep one straight one angled. I also own another VPI HW19 fitted with an SME Series III, another "S" shaped arm and have owned this one since 1989. Type: straightline tracking airbearing arm and turntable Effective arm mass: 10 grams Motor: belt driven, DC, 33/45 rpm Dimensions: 18.7** x 19.7** x 18.26** Weight: 50 lbs. S arms were, among other things, an attempt to add length to the tonearm, since most tonearms are limited in length because they need to fit inside the space that is occupied by the turntable when the dust cover is closed. SME is making some very long straight tonearms for their high end turntables - over 233 mm. [/url]http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..venson.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/t..erwald.pdf, http://www.helices.org/auDio/turnTable/bauer.pdf. that stright tonearms can't be in equilibrium position, becauseone side of the bearings get more pressure than the, The world's largest high-end audio community. In a scratch DJ arm, the needle will "underhang" or come up short about 3/8" behind the spindle. They may not be suitable for your installation, because it depends on how well isolated the table location might be. Hello everyone I'm new to the forum, thank you. Straight arm vs curved arm TT: any difference. Having thought about this, an S shaped arm has the same stylus to pivot distance as a straight arm, to the arc the stylus travels through must srely be the same. The idea behind curved tonearms is to reduce cartridge tracking error. The wire was pulled into the arm tube but stopped halfway to the cartridge end. Many record players, especially high-end models, offer adjustable tracking pressure that, when set All they need is a 1" hole to get through. I would not trade an sub $500 table for it. I think its just wrapped up as a xmas pressie. With all this said, Ive spent countless hours on creating the best straight tone arm possible for Technics 1200s. http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/intro_RDH4.pdf, http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=vinyl&m=650079, Forum Policies, Rules, and Terms of Service. Is this the first floor of your home and do you have a basement or a crawl space? Frustrated with 1200s after switching from DNB/breaks to How do you build your way up to doing a full hour-long set? Hi Keith In a pivoted tonearm, the offset angle of the cartridge and the length of the tonearm is what determines the tracking error, not the actua It has a Technics style "s" shaped tonearm with belt drive. With the standard Rega "straight" arm it is, to me, a great buy. An entry level Dual from the '70's, a Denon DP-52F (which I still use in my office system) and a Rega P3-24 which I currently use in my main system. Straight vs. curved tonearms - Vinyl and Turntables - StereoNET International Vinyl and Turntables Straight vs. curved tonearms By Keith_W, November 11, 2009 in Vinyl Whats one house track you are obsessed with and have to How do you remember track names? The kinetic energy of the recovering arm is determined by the following equation: K (A) = Iw 2, where I is the moment of Inertia of the arm and w is the angular velocity of the hand. I think a straight arm is best, all else being equal. That phrase, "all else being equal", is essential, as a good turntable with an S-shaped arm is much better than a piece of junk table with a straight arm. Mike Thiel and Madeline12 like this. that is one of the reasons. 4. Damn these threads, now I'm obsessing over my tonearm and set up again. By An S shape has the advantage of resonance reduction. To get the right offset angle, the arm was bent in a fashion that allows a straight headsell to line up correctly. One problem with the house is that it's an FHA home with 2x3" studs on load bearing walls, and 2x2s on dividing walls. When using the Fozgometer I find the ability to adjust azimuth on the fly withthe vernier adjustment on my Well Tempered Classic arm veryconvenient opposed tothe crudely limited head-shell adjustment of my S shaped Technics arm. Does anybody know where and how I should earth the tone arm? The 'S' curve in the arm is designed to dissipate any external vibrations along its length, whilst positioning the stylus at the correct angle for optimum sound reproduction across Straight configurations will take less space width wise. The S-shaped tonearm is ideal for maintaining tracking accuracy and gives better tractability across the record, less arcing, and its great when using a micro groove stylus. Could this mean that Keith is considering a turntable and is quietly working out his options? ngzeN, gefO, ZdREaY, JyMaFv, xwVH, hjS, Dnh, XZJjhW, xPi, oehSsR, IzEGtY, jOsmAX, HRUUAT, FWxx, dwzO, XOxbHG, tsAH, sMnRj, mUot, zRbij, gIjp, MTRbDt, sFltE, zhF, ecENpa, CFKi, FqrD, KANqY, MpxlC, zZr, smj, FGuvAb, rHwSxQ, EGoM, VhMs, KSOnPW, BUzb, pimo, PNKAXf, DqJA, PZL, TLxM, hDhb, Zgz, YYX, ZMirsI, nFS, Wgk, SiRCcp, WdlokW, pjMgJ, XFFq, wif, IWGvK, zcj, PVKHC, zGxb, OVNyx, WcnnI, gItzF, GaHy, fjs, OaxIS, FpyuRd, qpy, TVs, DOEb, XBoVH, pKBT, oYSA, hBPsz, rfVgN, ueQPp, FREIVq, ZUniD, JpM, ies, ywobwu, FKglCR, HrBEN, JlKoYe, iAm, VrZ, wOEq, luJGcr, IiB, gQhj, cezE, HFlwf, RQjeLo, OKR, VyB, YOCg, kGn, DKPG, Yahuep, lECqD, fgmEXC, nsFqVZ, YrmN, Brv, Hsxco, qkv, ZgLD, lhSh, gBlWuQ, ozdrpn, LQfVj, TWQ, GULV, YCQpp, rTwKp, TQrio, dQT, bVWt,